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Flashback: Taylor Marshall: "If... Vigano is Right... Francis has Lost the Papacy"

 Pope Innocent III quote: The Pope should not flatter himself about his  power nor...

Pope Innocent III quote: The Pope should not flatter himself about...

Dr. Taylor Marshall on his YouTube show explained why after Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano said that the Francis Abu Dhabi statement is "blatant heresy" that it is possible "Francis has lost the papacy":

"[Vigano said] this [the Abu Dhabi statement] is a blatant heresy... Let's pause there. This gets into St. Robert Bellarmine where he says a manifest heretic immediately and de facto loses the papacy. So, if Bellarmine is right and Vigano is right that means that Francis has lost the papacy... then Bellarmine would also say there is a general council that then declares the deposition that the pope has fallen for manifest heresy."
(Dr. Taylor Marshall YouTube Show, "Archbishop Vigano calls on Pope and Bishops to Repent Amidst Corona Crisis," April 1, 2020, 16:16-16:58)

However, theologian Cardinal Raymond Burke disagreed with the YouTube podcaster Marshall's claim that a "general council" is needed when the Catholic World Report (CWR) asked him:

"CWR: Who is competent to declare him to be in heresy?"

"Cardinal Burke: It would have to be members of the College of Cardinals."
(Catholic World Report, "Cardinal Burke : 'No, I am not saying that Pope Francis is in Heresy." December 19, 2016)

Note that Burke said "members of the College of Cardinals," not the whole College of Cardinals many of whom may
be presumed to be heretics. That sounds like a imperfect council not a "general council."

Comments

Aqua said…
If I witness a stranger open the gate to my corral and ride off on my horse I am qualified to judge him to be a horse thief.

That doesn’t mean I have the right to hang him from a tree branch.

But I do have the right and duty to apprehend him so those who can judge, will.

Those who can judge a crime, must judge the crime, or they are derelict and participants in the crime.
Alexis Bugnolo said…
Burke is wrong in saying that the Cardinals alone can judge him. That duty falls to the College of Bishops, who alone, are successors of the Apostles and hold the office of the magisterium.

The Cardinals hold no office of magisterium. They can only rebuke and warn and judge themselves as to whether they erred in following the papal law on elections. And since they are all creatures of careerism or of Bergoglio, I think it is pretty clear that, without a forza maggiore, they won't do anything.

As for the Bishops, a council is not strictly necessary. When Bishop Gracida approved the judgement of Archbishop Lenga, that Bergoglio is a heretic and has never been the pope, that was a collegial act already.

Debbie said…
Isn't this a big nothing burger anyway? As Ann has been saying for almost 4 years...."we gotta get this right". Do simply get rid of Bergoglio, have another faux conclave solves nothing and is actually more dangerous. Pope Benedict IS the Pope.
Alexis Bugnolo said…
Complements to Taylor for beginning to open his eyes after Archbishop Lenga and Gracida made their declarations that Bergoglio never was the pope and is a heretic.
Judie Brown said…
Anyone who has the audacity to suggest that Cardinal Burke is wrong on matters of Church law is as asinine as they come. Thank goodness Christ is in charge of His Church and not any of you.
Judie Brown
Alexis Bugnolo said…
Judie Brown,

Thank you for avoiding using ad hominems in your argument and acting like an adult.
Aqua said…
Not sure how wrong Cardinal Burke is “on Church Law”. I know for a fact he, along with three other Cardinals, asked the “Pope” five simple core Dogmatic questions in Dubia form, which, since asked by Cardinals of the Church, *demanded* answers on behalf of our Catholic Faith In the Name of Christ.

These Dubia *demanded answers*, Judie Brown.

Non-answer is, by definition, a negative (incorrect; heretical) answer.

By not insisting on getting clear answers from our titular Pope, and then allowing incorrect non-answers to prevail and infiltrate our Faith, Cardinal Burke made a serious problem *infinitely worse* by solidifying these fundamental Dogmatic errors into the fabric of the Faith on pain of disobedience to the “Pope”.

In other words, he participates in the infiltration of error by asking ... and then not following through .... on behalf of Dogmatic Truth. These errors have all grown and continue to grow (metastasize).

I consider that to be one of the gravest sins in the history of the Church: not answering the Dubia; not insisting on answers to the a Dubia.

And if we do not call out this error to our Superiors, we participate in their sin.
Judie Brown said…
Aqua, you do have a point and in my view given the overwhelming odds against them, the signers of the dubia who are still alive and involved have done all they can to press the matter. Do not forget that nobody can tell the Pope what to do and the urging, pleading and begging only goes so far. This is not Cardinal Burke's fault but rather a symptom of the depth of arrogance that exists with the Vatican's top tier of management beginning with the Pope.

Of course the errors will grow if left unchecked just like a tumor. But to suggest that anyone has not done enough to "call out this error" is a pejorative statement on your part. What we need to do and should be doing is praying for Cardinal Burke, Pope Francis and others to use this time of Lent as we approach Holy Week to be open to the Lord.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Judie
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ana Milan said…
I was under the impression that the Dubia were directed towards an antipope, not the Pope., & that is why they never received a response. This apostate must be urgently declared a pertinacious heretic, idolater & denier of the Deity of Christ & removed from the PO by those that voted him to that position without verifying that the See was in fact empty, along with all his self-conferred titles in the Vatican Yearbook 2020 & Pope Benedict XVI restored to his rightful place on the Throne of Peter, this time hopefully to remain at least long enough to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary & reveal the Third Secret of Fatima in full. He would also do well to cast out all the apostate's appointees & mandate TLM to be taught & celebrated worldwide as he should have done already.
Alexis Bugnolo said…
John,

Whether you can see it or not, it is not true without documented proof or eye witness testimonies. That is the big hole in your theory.
Unknown said…
Judie,
The abandoned sheep are not casting stones. The abandoned sheep is casting questions. Begging questions. Begging for bread which is not given to them, from their own shepherds.
What right now literally happens! But they are casting stones to their sheep in the form of meaningless and above all hopeless rhetorical words and speeches.

The whole world is rotten becausevof silence. Their silence!
So then if those will not speakvwho should and must speak because the righ WORDS are given to them as it is their duty to speak, then somebody else must to speak.
Otherwise, the stones will begone to speak. (Which btw., abandoned sheep is not casting to them.)
Ivan
Aqua said…
@ Judie Brown, Cardinal Burke, especially in reference to his status as former Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura (Supreme Court Chief Justice) has a duty to Holy Mother Church to ask the questions (Dubia - he did) AND to insist on answers - *correct answers* (he did not).

By not insisting on the latter he admitted error, especially in reference to his prior status as Prefect (etc), into the bloodstream of Holy Mother Church.

This we see around us now. Pachamama demon idols in and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass out. Darkness.

Those Dubia could have formed the basis for questioning his invalid election - how can any “Pope” hold such heretical views? Instead: Cardinal Burke has cemented Bergoglio’s status as (Anti) Pope and his heresy as De Fide. And vast numbers of Catholics are thus deceived and led to hell by this false faith ..... which should have been *confronted* at the beginning. Instead - accepted, approved.
Islam_Is_Islam said…
@Ana Milan: From your keyboard to God's ears!
Islam_Is_Islam said…
@Aqua: Good, concise, decisive points all. Thank you!
Justina said…
So, it looks like we can pick which idol we like best--on the left, Pachamama, more powerful (and more peeved) than the Almighty Himself; and on the right, Cardinal Burke, imbued by Judie Brown with an infallibility Vatican I wouldn't have dreamt of ascribing even to the most authentic of popes.

Sorry, I'll pass.

If the Judie Brown commenting here is THE Judie Brown of ALL, it would go a long way towards explaining why the mainstream pro-life movement has been its own worst enemy for the last several decades or so. You don't have to go to all the trouble of losing, as long as you are willing to surrender up front.

So "no one can tell the Pope what to do," is that it? Do you even believe in God? God can tell the Pope what to do and has, through the divine, natural, and Canon laws by which He guides His Church and which Bergoglio flaunts more blatantly every day. Not you, not me, and not even the more-than-infallible Cardinal Burke has any right to obey Bergoglio instead of God, even on the off chance that Bergoglio does happen to be the Pope.

JB,check Galatians 2:11 on this point, if it has never occurred to you before.

Or would you have to ask Cardinal Burke to read it to you himself and then explain it using nice, very small words?
Fr. VF said…
flout
Aqua said…
Justina: Galatians 2:11 is, of course, the description of St. Paul confronting the first Pope, St. Peter, “to his face”.

Not only is confronting the Pope to his face allowed, in some circumstances, it is required.

Read the rest of that chapter to the end (11-21) - the context of why St. Paul did so and what he accomplished. From that confrontation and through the humble repentance of Christ’s Vicar due to the godly correction of St. Paul, was born the entire Gospel of Grace through faith in Jesus Christ and not works of the Law. The arc of Christianity depended upon correction of our first earthly Papal ruler and his humble submission to the Word that governs us all.

Absent that correction and humble repentance, the infant Church would have been (perhaps) fatally flawed.

We are all human. No man is god. Even the Pope must submit to God and rightful correction *in God’s name*. God does not bow to the will of the Pope. God does not change. God’s Word cannot be altered. BUT: someone must be willing to stand up for God and make the correction to start the process of repentance.

 

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