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Kloster Survey & "Francis Effect": Traditional Latin Mass may Overthrow the Dying Novus Ordo Francis Mass by Sheer Numbers of Young Men, Beautiful Women & Lots of Kids

 Sancta Familia - Sancta Familia added a new photo.

  None of us should want to kill the Latin Mass - California Catholic Daily

 New Liturgical Movement: Ex ore infantium: Children and the Traditional Latin  Mass

  A Warning About the So-Called "Latin Mass Society" - OnePeterFive

After The Catholic Monitor did a post on a Fr. Donald Kloster older study in May, he let us know he "did a follow up study that was completed March 1, 2020. It had about the same number of samples 1750+." []

Here are some of the numbers from the website on his new survey:

This second and follow up Kloster 2019-2020 Survey was an attempt to measure the amount of interest and participation in the Traditional Latin Mass from the demographic of the Traditional Catholic adults 18-39 years of age. Many samples were collected as a result of two large Traditional Latin Mass gatherings.

On February 1, 2020 in Philadelphia, PA over 800 were in attendance for a Sarum Rite Vespers. On February 15, 2020 in New York, New York 950 gathered for a Solemn High Mass at the Lepanto Conference with Cardinal Zen. A great number of the attendees at these two events were in the target age group (300+ online samples gained) of the Kloster 2019-2020 Study.

The social networking throughout the just over four months of the survey was incredibly successful and yielded the overwhelming bulk of the number (1,400+ online samples gained) of respondents from all over the country. There were also about 250+ samples deleted because they were not in the desired age group.

Gallup polling reports that 12% of 20-29 year old Novus Ordo attendees go to weekly Mass. This Kloster 2019-2020 Survey had an average age of 27.4...

... There were 39 states included in the Study whose number was unintended but helpful for a wide measure of the subset of the 18-39 year olds within the 150,000 total Traditional Catholics of all ages that attend the TLM on any given Sunday...

... The male participation in the Study was 57% or fully 8 percentage points higher than males in our USA population. Men are an important barometer of any Liturgical Rite’s attractiveness.

The respondents had an average of 4.02 academic years after high school. The Mass attendance was 97.6% compared with the 99% of all TLM adults in the Kloster 2018 Study.

80% of the respondents thought about a priestly or religious vocation. This number confirms the surge in entries to TLM seminaries and convents.

45% of the respondents of this Study came back or came into the Catholic Church. 90% of the respondents were not raised from at least the age of 7 in the TLM. The Survey confirms that the Traditional Latin Mass is experiencing a high volume of participation and interest in the 18-39 demographic; a demographic noticeably underrepresented in modern Novus Ordo Mass parishes. []

Also, the New York Daily News reported that the fifty year-old Novus Ordo Mass is destroying the Catholic Church in America "[s]ince the 1960s, Mass attendance has plummeted, from around 70% of U.S. Catholics every Sunday and Holy Day." 

Ironically, however, the anti-Traditional Latin Mass Francis has inadvertently caused "a counterrevolution of sorts" that may overthrow the Novus Ordo Mass:

"Fifty years ago this weekend, the Catholic Church debuted a new version of Mass following reforms made by the 1960s’ Second Vatican Council. From the use of vernacular language instead of Latin, to the priest facing the people instead of the tabernacle, the changes became mandatory at all parishes on the First Sunday of Advent 1969."

"... The resurgence of the traditional Latin Mass started before Francis, but has seen unprecedented growth during his papacy, a counterrevolution of sorts that some (both admirably and critically) call an alternative Francis effect. Even bishops and priests who were not ordinarily interested in the traditional Latin Mass have been much more generous and vocal in offering additional such liturgies. Two distinct wings of the Catholic Church have emerged. Often, the new versus the old Mass is a defining characteristic of the opposing coalitions."

"... But after five decades of experiments and decline, there is some growth to be observed within the Catholic Church. Ironically, it is with traditionalists joining the priesthood, entering convents and attending parishes that offer the very Latin Mass that was replaced 50 years ago."

"... The past 50 years have not been good ones for the Catholic Church. Pope Benedict saw this when he wrote, of the new form of Mass, 'we abandoned the organic, living process of growth and development over centuries, and replaced it — as in a manufacturing process — with a fabrication, a banal on-the-spot product.'"

The Catholic Herald revealed that in the United States the Traditional Latin Mass attendees are the future real Catholics of the Church which will eventually out number the Novus Ordo Mass (NOM) attendees.

It appears that if the trend continues the Novus Ordo Mass may be overthrown by sheer numbers.

Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) attendees are over overwhelmingly real Catholics while New Mass or Novus Ordo Mass (NOM) attendees tend to be lapsed and heretical Catholics according to a new study by Fr. Donald Kloster:

Fulfill Sunday obligation:

TLM: 99℅ vs. NOM: 22℅

Approve of abortion:

TLM: 1℅ vs. NOM: 51℅

Go to Confession at least once a year:

TLM: 98℅ vs. NOM: 25℅

Approve of contraception:

TLM: 2℅ vs. NOM: 89℅

Support same-sex marriage:

TLM: 2℅ vs. NOW: 67℅

"TLM attendees donate 5 times more in the collection" according to Fr. Kloster.
(Catholic Herald, "Traditional Latin Mass attendees more devout and orthodox, study says," February 27, 2019)

Finally, the PAPAL DECREE CONCERNING MODESTY BY HIS HOLINESS POPE PIUS XI is followed by apparently only the Traditional Latin Mass parishes with the most beautiful women on earth:

12 January 1930
By virtue of his supreme apostolate, whereby the universal Church is
founded, by divine institution, Our Most Holy Lordship, Pope Pius XI never
tires of reiterating the words of St. Paul, to wit: “...women also in decent
apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, ... but as it
becometh women professing godliness, with good works...” (I Tim II: 9-10)
Frequently, when the occasion has presented itself, the selfsame Holy
Pontiff has reproved and bitterly condemned immodesty of dress pervasively
introduced into use these days amongst Catholic women and girls, a thing
which not only gravely offends feminine beauty and ornament, but leads most
lamentably to the temporal and worse still the eternal ruin of these same
women and unto the ruin of others still.
It is no wonder then, that the bishops and other ordinaries, as befits the
ministers of Christ, and each in his respective diocese, have opposed, by all
means and with unanimous voice, such misguided license and brazen
impudence, and tolerating the while with calm fortitude, on account of this,
frequent derision and abuse, brought against them by souls of ill will.
So let this sacred consilium of the clergy and of the people, pursue the
same sort of vigilance and action regarding the propagation of discipline as
the holy bishops, with deserved approbation and praise and let it earnestly
exhort these same men that they implement the counsels and the undertakings
begun in due season, and urge them on generously and to the best of their
ability, until this pestiferous sickness be completely rooted out from amongst
the honest affairs of men.
That this aim might be brought the more easily and securely to effect, this
sacred congregation, by the mandate of Our Most Holy Lord, decrees what
follows to be enacted:
1. May parish priests especially, and preachers when the occasion
presents itself, and according to the words of St. Paul “...demand, reprove,
beseech and rebuke...” women to wear clothes that redolent of modesty and
such other things as are the ornament and vanguard of virtue, and may they
warn parents not to permit their children to wear unseemly dress.
2. Parents, being ever mindful of the most awesome obligation which
binds them of caring firstly and foremostly for the moral and religious
education of their children, are to apply particular diligence, that their
daughters be firmly grounded in Christian doctrine and that those same
daughters also zealously foster in their souls, by words and example, the love
of virtues of modesty and chastity; may parents also, in imitation of the Holy
Family, busy themselves about so ordering and governing their family, that
each and every individual within the family home has a cause and incentive to
love and guard modesty.
3. Let those same parents prohibit their children from public athletic
events and gymnastics competitions, or at least, if their daughters must be
involved in them, that they take care to exhibit clothing which is fully in
keeping with modesty and that their parents never permit them to wear
immodest clothing.
4. May the governesses of colleges and instructresses of schools strive so
to imbue the souls of young women with the love of modesty that these same
young women are led efficaciously to modesty of dress.
5. May those same governesses and instructresses, with no exception
even to their own mothers, forbid admission to colleges and schools, to such
women as wear unseemly clothing, and once admitted, if they fail to come to
their senses, that they dismiss them.
6. Let not religious, according to the letters given by the Sacred
Congregation concerning Religious on August 13, 1928, admit young women
into their colleges, schools, oratories, or gymnasia, who do not observe a
Christian manner of dress, or if they have already been admitted, that they not
tolerate those who do not observe a Christian manner of dress. May they
moreover take special pains in the education of their female students, so that
the love of Christian modesty and holy reserve take deep root in their hearts.
7. May pious associations of women be established and fostered,
organizations which, by their counsel, example and deed, set before
themselves the goal of checking the abuse of dress, which is not consistent
with the dictates of Christian modesty, as well as the goal of promoting purity
of morals and modesty of dress.
8. Into the pious associations of women, let not those women be admitted
who put on immodest clothing; and once admitted, if afterwards they commit
a sin in this regard, and come not to their senses when admonished, may be
expelled as well.
9. Women and girls who wear immodest clothes are to be prohibited
from Holy Communion and from the office of sponsor in the sacraments of
Baptism and Confirmation, and in certain cases, they are to be prohibited even
from entry into the church.
10. When feasts occur throughout the year, which supply a particular
opportunity to inculcate Christian modesty, and especially feasts of the
Blessed Virgin Mary, may parish priests and priests of pious associations and
heads of Catholic societies not fail, by means of a sermon for that occasion, to
recall and encourage women, to a Christian manner of dress. Every year year,
on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, let
special prayers in all the cathedrals and parish churches be made, and, where
possible, may timely exhortation be given to the people in the church.
11. May diocesan counsels, discussed in a declaration of the Holy Office
of March 22, 1918, in a spirit of vigilance, and at least once a year, openly deal
with finding ever more suitable means and methods of effectively giving
counsel on feminine modesty.
12. To which point may salutary action, effectively and safely lead. May
bishops and other local ordinaries keep this sacred congregation informed,
every third year, together with a report on religious institution given of our
own accord in letters in the Catholic World on June 29, 1923, even concerning
the condition of things and the state surrounding feminine manner of dress,
and concerning works carried out in accordance with the rule of this

“A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers
breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to
the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses
of transparent materials are improper.” (The Cardinal Vicar of Pope Pius XI).
1. Marylike is modest without compromise, “like Mary,” Christ’s mother.
2. Marylike dresses have sleeves extending at least to the elbows; and skirts
reaching below the knees.
[N.B. Because of impossible market conditions quarter-length sleeves are temporarily
tolerated with Ecclesiastical Approval, until Christian womanhood again turns to
Mary as the model of modesty in dress.]
3. Marylike dress requires full coverage for the bodice, chest, shoulders and
back; except for a cut-out about the neck not exceeding two inches below the
neckline in front and in back and a corresponding two inches on the
4. Marylike dresses do not admit as modest coverage transparent fabrics
laces, nets, organdy, nylons, etc. unless sufficient backing is added.
However, their moderate use as trimmings is acceptable.
5. Marylike dresses do not admit the use improper of flesh-colored fabrics.
6. Marylike dresses conceal rather than reveal the figure of the wearer; they do
not unduly emphasize the parts of the body.
7. Marylike dresses provide full coverage even after the jacket, the cape or
the stole are removed.
8. Slacks or ‘jeans’ are not to be worn to church.
Marylike fashions are designed to conceal as much of the body as possible
rather than reveal it. This would automatically eliminate such fashions as
tight fitting slacks or ‘jeans’, sweaters, shorts; shorts which do not reach down
at least to the knees; sheer blouses and sleeveless dresses, etc. These Marylike
standards are a guide to instill a sense of modesty. Women and girls who
follow these standards and who look to Mary as their ideal and model will
have no problem of modesty in dress. She who follows these standards will
not be the occasion of sin nor a source of embarrassment or shame to others.

Pray an Our Father now for reparation for the sins committed because of Francis's Amoris Laetitia.

Pray an Our Father now for the restoration of the Church as well as the Triumph of the Kingdom of the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Stop for a moment of silence, ask Jesus Christ what He wants you to do now and next. In this silence remember God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost - Three Divine Persons yet One God, has an ordered universe where you can know truth and falsehood as well as never forget that He wants you to have eternal happiness with Him as his son or daughter by grace. Make this a practice. By doing this you are doing more good than reading anything here or anywhere else on the Internet.

Francis Notes:

- Doctor of the Church St. Francis de Sales totally confirmed beyond any doubt the possibility of a heretical pope and what must be done by the Church in such a situation:

"[T]he Pope... WHEN he is EXPLICITLY a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church, and the Church MUST either deprive him, or, as some say, declare him deprived, of his Apostolic See."
(The Catholic Controversy, by St. Francis de Sales, Pages 305-306)

Saint Robert Bellarmine, also, said "the Pope heretic is not deposed ipso facto, but must be declared deposed by the Church."

- "If Francis is a Heretic, What should Canonically happen to him?":

- "Could Francis be a Antipope even though the Majority of Cardinals claim he is Pope?":

- If Francis betrays Benedict XVI & the"Roman Rite Communities" like he betrayed the Chinese Catholics we must respond like St. Athanasius, the Saintly English Bishop Robert Grosseteste & "Eminent Canonists and Theologians" by "Resist[ing]" him: 

 -  LifeSiteNews, "Confusion explodes as Pope Francis throws magisterial weight behind communion for adulterers," December 4, 2017:

The AAS guidelines explicitly allows "sexually active adulterous couples facing 'complex circumstances' to 'access the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist.'"

-  On February 2018, in Rorate Caeli, Catholic theologian Dr. John Lamont:

"The AAS statement... establishes that Pope Francis in Amoris Laetitia has affirmed propositions that are heretical in the strict sense."

- On December 2, 2017, Bishop Rene Gracida:

"Francis' heterodoxy is now official. He has published his letter to the Argentina bishops in Acta Apostlica Series making those letters magisterial documents."

Pray an Our Father now for the restoration of the Church by the bishops by the grace of God.

Election Notes:  

- Intel Cryptanalyst-Mathematician on Biden Steal: "212Million Registered Voters & 66.2% Voting,140.344 M Voted...Trump got 74 M, that leaves only 66.344 M for Biden" []

- Will US be Venezuela?: Ex-CIA Official told Epoch Times "Chávez started to Focus on [Smartmatic] Voting Machines to Ensure Victory as early as 2003":

- Tucker Carlson's Conservatism Inc. Biden Steal Betrayal is explained by “One of the Greatest Columns ever Written" according to Rush:
- A Hour which will Live in Infamy: 10:01pm November 3, 2020:
What is needed right now to save America from those who would destroy our God given rights is to pray at home or in church and if called to even go to outdoor prayer rallies in every town and city across the United States for God to pour out His grace on our country to save us from those who would use a Reichstag Fire-like incident to destroy our civil liberties. [Is the DC Capitol Incident Comparable to the Nazi Reichstag Fire Incident where the German People Lost their Civil Liberties?: and Epoch Times Show Crossroads on Capitol Incident: "Anitfa 'Agent Provocateurs'":

Pray an Our Father now for the grace to know God's Will and to do it.
Pray an Our Father now for America.
Pray an Our Father now for the restoration of the Church as well as the Triumph of the Kingdom of the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary.



Aqua said…
The essence of the Catholic Church is communion across time until the Eschaton.

The essence of Nu Church is innovation and change rooted in current ethos and fashion.

I posted on a different blogger's site excerpts from the documents that governed the promulgation of both Masses: the Tridentine and Nu. It is interesting because the one is permeated with references to massive efforts to know and apply the wisdom and knowledge from the Sacred Deposit of Faith, while the other is a simple little document that references nothing more than current concensus and Papal will to power. I give you Quo Primum and Traditionis Custodes ...

Extract from *Quo Primum* (note the ongoing references to We, Us, Our - all capitalized - throughout)

“Hence, We decided to entrust this work to learned men of our selection. They very carefully collated all their work with the ancient codices in Our Vatican Library and with reliable, preserved or emended codices from elsewhere. Besides this, these men consulted the works of ancient and approved authors concerning the same sacred rites; and thus they have restored the Missal itself to the original form and rite of the holy Fathers. When this work has been gone over numerous times and further emended, after serious study and reflection, We commanded that the finished product be printed and published as soon as possible, so that all might enjoy the fruits of this labor; and thus, priests would know which prayers to use and which rites and ceremonies they were required to observe from now on in the celebration of Masses.

Let all everywhere adopt and observe what has been handed down by the Holy Roman Church, the Mother and Teacher of the other churches, and let Masses not be sung or read according to any other formula than that of this Missal published by Us.”

Extract from *Traditionis Custodes* (note the exclusive use of the normative “I” throughout):

“At this time, having considered the wishes expressed by the episcopate and having heard the opinion of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, I now desire, with this Apostolic Letter, to press on ever more in the constant search for ecclesial communion. Therefore, I have considered it appropriate to establish the following … ).”

One is scrupulously in union with the Sacred Deposit of Faith; the Pope in union with all other Popes both by Office and by Rule.

The other is sloppily declarative if the will of living Bishops and zero reference is made even to Vatican II as a source for this “Papal” Rule, much less anything else within the Sacred Deposit of Faith. There is no inference of Magisterial union with any other Pope … “I” covers everything he needs here.

And it is a simple definitional fact that one is of the Roman Catholic Church while the other is not. Why? Communion, connection, unity, continuity, unchanging truth, everything sourced in everything - common communal connections and God is in the center of the core. One has it. The other does not.

And that is why I am confident Nu Church and its communal shared meals will pass away in my lifetime. Bishop of Rome Bergoglio insists that one is not equivalent to the other; one must stand, the other must fall. And he is right.
Debbie said…
Very good observation Aqua. The same was noted of Obama...I I I, me me me, my my my.

Aqua said…
Debbie: I wanted to make sure I properly made the point about the Papal use of "We, Us, Our ... etc", because I think it is so crucial to understanding the invalidity of the current pronouncements of the Bishop of Rome Bergoglio - specifically Traditionis Custodes, but all other pronouncements as well: they are disconnected from the Sacred Deposit of Faith; they stand alone as personal opinions of a man and those surrounding him in this moment in time.

I always used to wonder why this preposition - We, Us, Our ... always capitalized ... was used in Papal pronouncements.

It is because they do not speak alone and of their own personal "power". They speak in unity, together with all the other Popes in the royal line, leading to Peter, chosen directly by Christ. They speak as one. The power of the Seat of Peter is in the collective unity of the communion of Peters filling the Office. They are not unique. They are Vicars of Christ and they speak with one voice the Holy Word of God - guaranteed by God.

Antipopes speak of themselves and for themselves. "I, me, my ... etc". They are in union with themselves and speak for no one beyond themselves.

To me, it is the guiding light to understand whether official Church pronouncements bind me or do not. It must be sourced and connected. The resignation of Pope Benedict is another example of invalidity: Emeritus Pope is not sourced in Sacred Tradition, no attempt is made to source it - it just is; and the resignation statement itself is a clear violation of governing Canon Law.

Valid pronouncements from the Seat of Peter will connect "Themself" to their Papal brethren in antiquity.
Ivanmijeime said…
Yes aqua, when they speaks with We, Us, Our, then they speaks in unity of/with the whole one Holy apostolic Catholic Church, and most important of all, - in unity with the Holy Ghost!
Therefore We, Us, Our, etc. with capital letter.

And all those of us who are also in unity with the Holy Gost know, comprehend, understand and believe that whrn everything is stated in that way is and must be a truth.

Those in whomever the Holy Ghost is dwelling, can't be easily deceived.

Aqua said…
Ivan - thank you for clarifying. You said it better. It goes deeper than I thought. The communion of the Vicar of Christ is with all previous and future Popes, with the One Holy Apostolic Church, with the Holy Ghost. The communion transcends time. It is mystical. It is eternal. It is unchanging, like our God.
Ivanmijeime said…
Dear aqua,
Please mind, anything good I ever do or say, the credits goes to our God who creates me. Anything wrong or bad I do or say it's me to blame.

Btw. I read carefuly and with most admire all your comments here. I consider you my brother in Christ and in arms.
God bless you my friend!

Debbie said…
Thanks again Aqua. I understand the distinction you were making. My thoughts, though not made clear, were the linking of the presidential usurper Obama to antipope Bergoglio. Birds of a feather.....neither one legit.

And thank you too Ivan, I, like you agree, it's always a pleasure to read Aqua"s thoughts.

A blessed and fruitful Advent to all

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