I was surprised to see that the highly respected Vox Cantoris and my friend Aqua (with others) "discuss[ing]" the mask mandate situation in the Church in my other website The Fred Martinez Report comment section. [https://www.thefredmartinezreport.com/2021/11/vox-cantoris-vs-aqua.html?showComment=1636554341584#c53553284915260947]
There was a lively back and forth that seemed worthy of being brought forth:
Comments
Wait, wait...Cantoris is DEFENDING all of this madness?!?
11:05 PM
I like Vox, but not here. And I would miss Mass if I had to wear a mask.
The Faith is the issue... not "the mass"...
All of you have still failed to get my point but are having great fun, I see.
The bishop owns the churches through the structure of corporation sole. Look up what it means.
He decrees it and people have reported back. I have three examples in Ontario and Saskatchewan where the bishops/priests have shut it down. Another group is pushing the issue and is at risk.
Given TC what do you think one should do in a place that is not so friendly?
But you go ahead and you keep harping as if the issue is me instead of addressing that the issue happens to be people who care more about making a political statement during the holy sacrifice of the mass and preserving the actual presence of the mass and to keep it going in spite of the enemies. I shut down my COM box because people .can’t address the issue.
I have also taken an attestation at work that I am not jab with the poison death shot and as such now test three times a week for this I suppose you would say I am a sell out to Satan to.
Frankly I couldn’t give a damn if anyone of you ever read my blog again but I only came here because it was on Canon 212 and I suppose I’ve lost Frank as a friend too. Yeah none of you can address what to do in a case where the people won’t wear the mask and the bishop may threaten to shut down the community and you think just let that happen because you got to stand by your principles of the mess I got to stay at my feet like a little boy
Grow up.
The bishop owns the churches through the structure of corporation sole. Look up what it means.
He decrees it and people have reported back. I have three examples in Ontario and Saskatchewan where the bishops/priests have shut it down. Another group is pushing the issue and is at risk.
Given TC what do you think one should do in a place that is not so friendly?
But you go ahead and you keep harping as if the issue is me instead of addressing that the issue happens to be people who care more about making a political statement during the holy sacrifice of the mass and preserving the actual presence of the mass and to keep it going in spite of the enemies. I shut down my COM box because people .can’t address the issue.
I have also taken an attestation at work that I am not jab with the poison death shot and as such now test three times a week for this I suppose you would say I am a sell out to Satan to.
Frankly I couldn’t give a damn if anyone of you ever read my blog again but I only came here because it was on Canon 212 and I suppose I’ve lost Frank as a friend too. Yeah none of you can address what to do in a case where the people won’t wear the mask and the bishop may threaten to shut down the community and you think just let that happen because you got to stand by your principles of the mess I got to stay at my feet like a little boy
Grow up.
If you would miss mass because you have to wear a mask then you are
objectively committing a mortal sin. I recall a Muslim one saying that
if you really believe that God was present in that which you say is no
longer a piece of bread why aren’t you crawling on the floor and bowing
to him. It’s a good question. The masses everything and if you won’t put
on a mask so you can attend the holy sacrifice then you need to go to
confession and rethink what it means to be a Catholic Catholic
Vox, it sounds like you have Stockholm Syndrome from being in Canada.
I will not mask up in front of the Triune God. The mask mandates are
conceived in malice and deceit. Better to build a priest hole and seek
like-minded priests to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in the
homes of parishioners who understand the truth of the matter.
Vox, I really regret that this topic has come to this. I want you to
know that I respect you highly for your blog efforts and your Catholic
faithfulness which has been an inspiration to me, over the years I’ve
followed you, off and on. I follow just a small number of Catholic
blogs, and yours is one of them.
Also, your opinions on this topic don’t change my respect for you, your efforts or my appreciation for your Catholic Faith in any way, shape or form. It is a simple disagreement … although yes, it is a topic that is incredibly important.
My hope was that we could engage the topic respectfully on your blog. Your decision to close comments is yours to make (obviously) and yours alone. You needn’t open them again, ever. I respect that and understand, whichever way you choose to go. That being said, I do wish we could have continued to discuss this *respectfully*, as Christians, as brothers.in Christ,
I figure out solutions to intellectual problems by writing - more than any other activity, it is what allows me to come to grips with what I believe, why and how I believe it. It is helpful to have a discussion with those of other opinions to sharpen my beliefs; alter my course; clarify what might be cloudy and obscure. That is why I commented on Fred’s blog. Yours was closed and he had a topic that aligned so similarly with yours. It was si only natural to complete my thoughts here.
One last point I’d like to make to you, in reference to what you said above which extends what you said before in your original post, which has to do with the Bishops “owning the churches”. No doubt they do. But they do not own the Faith. They are participants in the Faith. To the extent they are in conformity to their Lord Jesus Christ, through Our Lady, submissive and protective of Sacred Tradition and all its Doctrines - to that extent alone they have IMMENSE authority to rule and my obedience to them is total. To the extent, however, they *depart* from Christ, His Mother, Tradition, Doctrine … the Communion of Saints … my obedience is situational to the extent it is under authority legitimately asserted. My obedience is to Christ, Mary, Tradition (incl the Bible), Doctrine … the Communion of Saints. The Bishop might close their doors to the Faithful, once again, but secular mask mandates as a condition of entry and participation in the Holy of Holies is simply not acceptable … to me.
As I said on my first response to you on your blog - still friends, I hope. Disagreement should be fine among friends. A tip of my cap to all the work you’ve ever done on behalf of Holy Mother Church.
Also, your opinions on this topic don’t change my respect for you, your efforts or my appreciation for your Catholic Faith in any way, shape or form. It is a simple disagreement … although yes, it is a topic that is incredibly important.
My hope was that we could engage the topic respectfully on your blog. Your decision to close comments is yours to make (obviously) and yours alone. You needn’t open them again, ever. I respect that and understand, whichever way you choose to go. That being said, I do wish we could have continued to discuss this *respectfully*, as Christians, as brothers.in Christ,
I figure out solutions to intellectual problems by writing - more than any other activity, it is what allows me to come to grips with what I believe, why and how I believe it. It is helpful to have a discussion with those of other opinions to sharpen my beliefs; alter my course; clarify what might be cloudy and obscure. That is why I commented on Fred’s blog. Yours was closed and he had a topic that aligned so similarly with yours. It was si only natural to complete my thoughts here.
One last point I’d like to make to you, in reference to what you said above which extends what you said before in your original post, which has to do with the Bishops “owning the churches”. No doubt they do. But they do not own the Faith. They are participants in the Faith. To the extent they are in conformity to their Lord Jesus Christ, through Our Lady, submissive and protective of Sacred Tradition and all its Doctrines - to that extent alone they have IMMENSE authority to rule and my obedience to them is total. To the extent, however, they *depart* from Christ, His Mother, Tradition, Doctrine … the Communion of Saints … my obedience is situational to the extent it is under authority legitimately asserted. My obedience is to Christ, Mary, Tradition (incl the Bible), Doctrine … the Communion of Saints. The Bishop might close their doors to the Faithful, once again, but secular mask mandates as a condition of entry and participation in the Holy of Holies is simply not acceptable … to me.
As I said on my first response to you on your blog - still friends, I hope. Disagreement should be fine among friends. A tip of my cap to all the work you’ve ever done on behalf of Holy Mother Church.
"May God comfort you. I know moreover that not only this thing saddens
you, but also the fact that while others have obtained the churches by
violence, you are meanwhile cast out from your places. For they hold the
places, but you the Apostolic Faith. They are, it is true, in the
places, but outside of the true Faith; while you are outside the places
indeed, but the Faith, within you. Let us consider whether is the
greater, the place or the Faith. Clearly the true Faith." -- St.
Athanasius [https://www.thefredmartinezreport.com/2021/11/vox-cantoris-vs-aqua.html?showComment=1636554341584#c53553284915260947]
Pray an Our Father now for reparation for the sins committed because of Francis's Amoris Laetitia.