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"If Francis IS a Valid and Licit Pope ... then we have a Problem" & "If he's an Antipope, there is Nothing Good that can possibly come from this Consecration; even if it *Appears* to be Good"

The Word For The Day — Jesus said, “FOR FALSE CHRISTS AND FALSE PROPHETS...

Only three pieces of wisdom I have: 1) "Thy Will Be Done"; 2) Choose BOLDLY (for or against Our Lord Jesus); 3) Most of this world you see is Barking Madness.
Joined July 2009

The popular Twitter pundit D.E. Meikle said in The Catholic Monitor comment section "If Francis IS a valid and licit pope... then we have a problem" and the well known commenter Aqua said " if he's an antipope, there is nothing good that can possibly come from this consecration; even if it *appears* to be good." Here are their CM comment posts:

Aqua said…
"Michael @ pilgrim center San Sebastián Garabandal" made another point in regards to this. I found it compelling

- quote ... and it's his entire comment" -

"Let’s consider this consecration in relationship to the actions of the False Prophet forerunner of the Antichrist.
Let’s say that Bergoglio does the consecration as reported – BUT – instead of being another botched job this one actually appears to bear fruit. Not a true peace, but the illusion of peace as part of another diabolically orchestrated plan in order for Bergoglio to gain universal acceptance among the nations. The complicit Luciferian controlled media quickly embrace Bergoglio as responsible for achieving peace to worldwide acclaim.

You’ll recall the warning of Our Lord in St. Matthew’s Gospel:
“For there shall arise false christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect” – Matt 24:24

It is a reasonable supposition that the False Prophet will work signs and lying wonders. These “lying wonders” will gain credence for himself among unbelievers. The False Prophet may then persuade all infidels, apostates and apostate nations that salvation comes through the Globalist Great Reset New World Order of the Antichrist. (edited quote from Fr. Herman Kramer, The Book of Destiny, pdf p. 283; See also 2 Thessalonians 2:9)"

- end quote -

A seemingly miraculous success might be the secret sauce that they used to compel obedience among all,people on earth - glad to be saved from destruction snd willing to follow wherever such a wise and "holy" man might lead. Except - as in the book Lord Of the World (Robert Hugh Benson) - Christ is absent, replaced by wise benevolent rulers that worship "higher powers" and the ultimate deity is the peoples of mankind.

Basically, if he's an antipope, there is nothing good that can possibly come from this consecration; even if it *appears* to be good (as Michael proposes), it will still be bad, because God is not in it - by definition it is dead, it belongs to Satan ... it is a binary choice.

I simply can't understand how any Catholic can be Agnostic about the identity of the Pope. It is the most important visible, physical thing in our Church. This possible Fatima consecration is but a glaring recent example. In infinite practical and meaningful ways, the Pope is crucial to our Faith; an antipope is deadly. It goes on and on as we descend further snd further into the brink.
Anonymous said…
Considering “it’s above my pay grade” I give this parable:

Middle school math students have just learned algebra. They know that 1 + 1 = 2. They are wondering what 2 + 2 is. One boy chirps up it is 4. The rest of the students are incredulous. “How do you know?” He just says they must take what they know and multiply both side by two. Then they protest he is arrogant and has no authority to tell them what 2 + 2 is. “Only the teacher can tell us what 2 + 2 is.”

One can understand that a non-Catholic can’t run the Catholic Church without canonically declaring it. What isn’t lawfully declared isn’t morally binding on others. But God knows exactly what you are thinking. He knows when you understand the Church’s teachings on heresy and the papacy. Even if no one else is bound by your thoughts, you are. Just like heresy automatically kicking you out without nobody declaring it.
Anonymous said…
What I am saying is that just because something is the case it does not mean the law will instantly declare it. Just because nobody has yet lawfully declared it doesn’t mean it isn’t ontologically true.

I’ve found that many people suppose canon law is divine law.
Aqua said…
Anonymous: No "like" buttons here, so ... this will have to do. Simple parables like this really do serve to clarify the obscure. And it is a perfect response to those who insist we must accept injustice and fraud because that is what we are told to do by wicked me in the Church (men are variously wicked, Holy Mother Church is pure).

It really serves to underscore the duty we all share to participate in and defend the body of Truth which is Sacred Tradition - the quantifiable patrimony which is over and above any living man, even a Pope whose duty is to serve and protect that which is handed down to us all (not just him).

I have often referred to a similar parable: One is witness to a murder. You know the murder happened because you saw it with your own eyes - you were there, or watched in closed circuit tv. You can't render judgement and execute the perpetrator based on your knowledge - only competent authority can formally declare verdict and sentence. That doesn't change what you know. And a judgement that alters the facts to an unjust judgement - "his race or experiences nullified the crime, and renders him legally innocent" - does not make him "ontologically" innocent.

Lies and deceptions seem to be the spirit of the age - the spiritual air we breath. It is very difficult to remain within the structure of truth in such times as these. Keeping it simple, like you do here, helps a lot.
D.E. Meikle said…
So now we have Francis apparently doing what no other pope since 1917 had the guts, Faith or resolve to do: Consecrate Russia. It has been previously avoided because of the politics involved.

Well maybe this will be our moment of sign, but perhaps it will work out differently than many think:

1) If Francis IS a valid and licit pope (issues where there are real dubia) then we have a problem. A resulting supernatural Grace from this consecration would be seen by many as validation of his papacy. Francis is an open collaborator with the ideas of the “World Economic Forum” and the globalist “New World Order”(WEF/NOW). If Francis' telos is correct, then the previous Faith of 2,000 years will have been shown to have been false, they cannot both be true (law of non-contradiction); or

2) If Francis is NOT valid/licit and he attempts this consecration he does so without juridic authority. Which means he invites some pretty nasty stuff demon-wise upon himself and those in union with him. Catholic blogger Ann Barnhardt thinks may cause a nuke war. (I don’t agree- I think if the public Francis consecration does not help resolve things, it will cause a loss of faith in Fatima (and its real message which has never been properly distributed)).

Interesting times. Pray for the Ukraine, and pray that the Consecration of Russia happens as Our Lady directs and God wills, however that may come about. if Benedict is not publicly involved, I question the whole event next week []

Pray an Our Father now for reparation for the sins committed because of Francis's Amoris Laetitia.

Pray an Our Father now for the restoration of the Church as well as the Triumph of the Kingdom of the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Stop for a moment of silence, ask Jesus Christ what He wants you to do now and next. In this silence remember God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost - Three Divine Persons yet One God, has an ordered universe where you can know truth and falsehood as well as never forget that He wants you to have eternal happiness with Him as his son or daughter by grace. Make this a practice. By doing this you are doing more good than reading anything here or anywhere else on the Internet.

Francis Notes:

- Doctor of the Church St. Francis de Sales totally confirmed beyond any doubt the possibility of a heretical pope and what must be done by the Church in such a situation:

"[T]he Pope... WHEN he is EXPLICITLY a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church, and the Church MUST either deprive him, or, as some say, declare him deprived, of his Apostolic See."
(The Catholic Controversy, by St. Francis de Sales, Pages 305-306)

Saint Robert Bellarmine, also, said "the Pope heretic is not deposed ipso facto, but must be declared deposed by the Church."

- "If Francis is a Heretic, What should Canonically happen to him?":

- "Could Francis be a Antipope even though the Majority of Cardinals claim he is Pope?":

- If Francis betrays Benedict XVI & the"Roman Rite Communities" like he betrayed the Chinese Catholics we must respond like St. Athanasius, the Saintly English Bishop Robert Grosseteste & "Eminent Canonists and Theologians" by "Resist[ing]" him: 

 -  LifeSiteNews, "Confusion explodes as Pope Francis throws magisterial weight behind communion for adulterers," December 4, 2017:

The AAS guidelines explicitly allows "sexually active adulterous couples facing 'complex circumstances' to 'access the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist.'"

-  On February 2018, in Rorate Caeli, Catholic theologian Dr. John Lamont:

"The AAS statement... establishes that Pope Francis in Amoris Laetitia has affirmed propositions that are heretical in the strict sense."

- On December 2, 2017, Bishop Rene Gracida:

"Francis' heterodoxy is now official. He has published his letter to the Argentina bishops in Acta Apostlica Series making those letters magisterial documents."

Pray an Our Father now for the restoration of the Church by the bishops by the grace of God.

Election Notes:  

- Intel Cryptanalyst-Mathematician on Biden Steal: "212Million Registered Voters & 66.2% Voting,140.344 M Voted...Trump got 74 M, that leaves only 66.344 M for Biden" []

- Will US be Venezuela?: Ex-CIA Official told Epoch Times "Chávez started to Focus on [Smartmatic] Voting Machines to Ensure Victory as early as 2003":

- Tucker Carlson's Conservatism Inc. Biden Steal Betrayal is explained by “One of the Greatest Columns ever Written" according to Rush:
- A Hour which will Live in Infamy: 10:01pm November 3, 2020:
What is needed right now to save America from those who would destroy our God given rights is to pray at home or in church and if called to even go to outdoor prayer rallies in every town and city across the United States for God to pour out His grace on our country to save us from those who would use a Reichstag Fire-like incident to destroy our civil liberties. [Is the DC Capitol Incident Comparable to the Nazi Reichstag Fire Incident where the German People Lost their Civil Liberties?: and Epoch Times Show Crossroads on Capitol Incident: "Anitfa 'Agent Provocateurs'":

Pray an Our Father now for the grace to know God's Will and to do it.
Pray an Our Father now for America.
Pray an Our Father now for the restoration of the Church as well as the Triumph of the Kingdom of the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary.




Justina said…
If you think of all the vile insults which Bergoglio has hurled at Our Lady since his putative elevation to the papacy, what could a Marian "consecration" coming from him possibly mean, anyway? It would be like receiving a baby shower gift from an abortionist.
Aqua said…
Justine: I posted this on another blog (les femmes), but I wanted to add it in here, since t addresses, I think, your concern.

I'd never thought about it before now, but I think a lot of people are thinking thoughts similar to yours (and mine) now. What will it mean? And it got me thinking about what specifically Our Lady intended when she appeared to the children of Fatima. It must have been a simple message understandable to the simplest among us. It can't have been intended only for the educated elites, but, like the Gospel itself, children and shepherds and modern day equivalents like janitors and ditch diggers.

It's quite simple, the message she conveys from God in heaven. We, in our ignorance, make it difficult. Conversion of self; conversion of the world.

Following is what I wrote on Les Femmes -

"What the consecration is intended to deliver, and what our Blessed Mother promises is, specifically, "the triumph of her immaculate heart", which, in union with her divine Son means (of course) conversion to Christ.

This is what I see as impossible given current conditions "on the ground" in which "peace and the brotherhood of man, in service to the common conceptions of a higher power to which we all strive" is the aspirations of this false pontificate. The Bishop of Rome and all the Bishops in union with him serve an entirely different secular purpose than converting the world to Christ, through Mary for eternal Beatitude in the one, true God. Peace and brotherhood - not - conversion and holiness in Charity.

The point of designating "the Pope in union with all the world's Bishops" is not random ingredients to a magical incantation but the description of an ontological reality in which a true Pope is in point of objective fact in union with all the world's Bishops who are together, *AS ONE*, in union with the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and as such their consecration of Russia, in obedience to the precise formula of the Queen, speak the words of heaven for the miraculous conversion of sinners to our Queen, and her Son. As One.

Unity of persons. Unity of purpose. Unity of earth and heaven."

- end extract -

The central point? The words must be in service of a unified Church heart, expressed by the Pope and all Bishops in union with him, toward the one true God, Jesus Christ - Word Made Flesh, and Mary the Queen of Heaven and Earth ... and not just a formula which we can all grade to see whether this man "checked off all the boxes" (ugh).
utahagen said…
"Just like heresy automatically kicking you out without nobody declaring it." Shouldn't the words read, "without anybody", NOT "without nobody"?
Anonymous said…
Probably. Nobody has to declare that you are a heretic to be one.
OldTiredCatholic said…
Louie's (aka Catholic) anaylsis is some of the best so far but even he missed a key point.

The CRUCIAL quotes from Frère Michel de la Sainte Trinité Fatima book APPEAR ON MORE THAN ONE PAGE.

The REQUIREMENT for an ORDER appears here:

“The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to make, and to order that in union with him and at the same time, all the bishops of the world make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to convert it because of this day of prayer and worldwide reparation.”

… Frère Michel de la Sainte Trinité, The Whole Truth About Fatima — Vol. II, p. 555.

A bit more rounding out of information related to evaluating the validity of a "consecration."

Keeping in mind, the invitations issued by JPII were deemed insufficient in the analysis of his consecration(s).

And that, as the Vicar of Christ, ordering/decreeing/declaring are simply part and parcel of the OFFICE and in a sane age could well just be assumed to be obvious.

Your Questions and Answers by Father Nicholas Gruner

Will Pope Francis fulfill Our Lady’s specific conditions for the consecration of Russia
OldTiredCatholic said…
ALSO - Bergoglio is NOT doing anything that has not already been done incorrectly in the past.

Handy CHART on VALIDITY ANALYSIS of the FULL list of "consecrations" with link to source in GEREMIA'S post here:

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