Skip to main content

The Catholic Monitor asked Steven O'Reilly: "Are you a big Vatican II promoter or not? Did Vatican II define dogma or not according to you? I know it's hard for you to say yes or no, but try"

The Catholic Monitor (CM) was honored to have the publisher of .RomaLocutaEst, Steven O’Reilly, who is a former intelligence officer, visit its comment section in which he and the publisher of CM had a back and forth.

I asked O'Reilly:

"Are you a big Vatican II promoter or not? Did Vatican II define dogma or not according to you? I know it's hard for you to say yes or no, but try."

Here's the discussion:

Fred,

I had sworn off even bothering to comment anymore on your blog as you tend toward sensationalism. However, in this case, I'll make an exception. If you had read my article, then one would know I say nothing of Lumen Gentium's doctrinal status, infallible or not, and that this consideration does not even enter into the discussion.

Lumen Gentium does not need to be infallible for the article's point to remain true; for that matter, canon law is not "infallible!" The point is only, relative to canon 17, that a "parallel passages" in Dogmatic Constitutions can be used to help interpret a meaning in canon law. So says the commentary on canon law that I cite -- in the article.

The Benepapists try to use canon 17 to allege an absolute distinction between the meaning of ministerium and munus. Indeed they must do so, for if they fail to do maintain this fiction, Benepapist theories crumble completely. That is the issue.

However, Canon 17 does not restrict interpretation of the law only to canon law, it specifically suggests looking at "parallel passages", and this may include the Church's Constitutions. Thus, this leads us to Lumen Gentium which does shed light on the meaning and relationship of ministerium to the munus. So, for example, we see in LG 20, ** a munus IS a ministry.**

So...instead of tossing out a red herring for your readers to chase after; why not read my article, and actually address the arguments made therein. The title of your article, and the quote from BXVI clearly suggest that you have not read it; or if you have read it, the title and BXVI clearly show you are not being straight with your readers about the contents of my article. In which case, I suggest your readers click the link, and read my article

God bless,

Steve O'Reilly
Fred Martinez said…

What does it mean to let your yes be yes and your no be no?https://www.gotquestions.org › ... › Matthew
Jan 4, 2022 — Jesus said, “Let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil” (Matthew 5:37, KJV).

Steve said: "I say nothing of Lumen Gentium's doctrinal status, infallible or not, and that this consideration does not even enter into the discussion."

Steve, Sorry to tell you this Steve, but it is a big "consideration" in your agrument if Vatican II is infallible or not. Just like it is a big "consideration" in Francis's agruments if Vatican II is infallible or not.

Also, I've heard all your stuff a million times. There is nothing really new in it, it seems to me. What appears to be new is that you may be a big Vatican II promoter. Are you a big Vatican II promoter or not? Did Vatican II define dogma or not according to you? I know it's hard for you to say yes or no, but try.

God bless you,

Fred

Fred,

I am not getting into your sensationalist rabbit-holes, Fred. The infallibility or non-infallibility of Vatican II has NOTHING to do with my argument!! It could be just a non=infallible document like canon 17 in the code of canon law. It could be just an official Church document providing a historical treatment of the hierarchy. My argument -- as I am the one making it -- does NOT require Vatican II or Lumen Gentium to be infallible. I'll concede, arguendo, any assumption that YOU may wish for YOUR side of the argument.

If you want to assume it is infallible fine. If you want to assume it is NOT infallible. Fine!

That allows us to get to the heart of the matter related to BXVI's resignation.

Without agreeing Lumen Gentium is necessarily correct in what it is saying; do you agree Lumen Gentium 20 effectively says on a plain reading of the text that "a munus is a ministry" -- as my article argues? If not, explain to me precisely how or where my reading of the plain text, and the logic, goes wrong. It is pretty straightforward.

Pretty simple, Fred.

Regards,

Steven O'Reilly


Fred Martinez said…
Steve,

Again, I ask:

Are you a big Vatican II promoter or not? Did Vatican II define dogma or not according to you? I know it's hard for you to say yes or no, but try.

Best,

Fred [https://www.thecatholicmonitor.com/2022/11/if-steven-oreilly-thinks-vatican-ii.html]
Here's the post which caused the back and forth:
Dawn says: “I trust the Church when it says the pope, even when not teaching infallibly, can't teach error when teaching on faith & morals.” But the Church does not teach this and it is utter nonsense. “Not teaching infallibly” logically entails “could be teaching error.”
Quote Tweet
Dawn Eden Goldstein đź‡şđź‡¦
@DawnofMercy
Replying to @DawnofMercy @FeserEdward and 5 others
...I see as following Lumen gentium 25 & the teaching of Vatican I on papal indefectibility (see @FastiggiR's comments here: patheos.com/blogs/davearms). In other words, I trust the Church when it says the pope, even when not teaching infallibly,... 3/x

Roma Locuta Est (Steven O’Reilly)


If Steven O’Reilly thinks Vatican II defined dogma, here is Pope Benedict XVI's answer to him:

The Testimony of (former) Pope Benedict XVI

(Former) Pope Benedict XVI, as Cardinal Ratzinger, also stated that Vatican II was not infallible:
[T]here is a mentality of narrow views that isolates Vatican II .... There are many accounts of it, which give the impression that from Vatican II onward, everything has been changed, and what preceded it has no value or, at best, has value only in the light of Vatican II. ... The truth is that this particular Council defined no dogma at all, and deliberately chose to remain on a modest level, as a merely pastoral council; and yet many treat it as though it had made itself into a sort of superdogma which takes away the importance of all the rest. 
note [https://catholiccandle.neocities.org/faith/vatican-ii-is-not-infallible.html]

Pray an Our Father now for reparation for the sins committed because of Francis's Amoris Laetitia.

Pray an Our Father now for the restoration of the Church as well as the Triumph of the Kingdom of the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Stop for a moment of silence, ask Jesus Christ what He wants you to do now and next. In this silence remember God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost - Three Divine Persons yet One God, has an ordered universe where you can know truth and falsehood as well as never forget that He wants you to have eternal happiness with Him as his son or daughter by grace. Make this a practice. By doing this you are doing more good than reading anything here or anywhere else on the Internet.

Francis Notes:

Doctor of the Church St. Francis de Sales totally confirmed beyond any doubt the possibility of a heretical pope and what must be done by the Church in such a situation:

"[T]he Pope... WHEN he is EXPLICITLY a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church, and the Church MUST either deprive him, or, as some say, declare him deprived, of his Apostolic See."
(The Catholic Controversy, by St. Francis de Sales, Pages 305-306)


Saint Robert Bellarmine, also, said "the Pope heretic is not deposed ipso facto, but must be declared deposed by the Church."
[https://archive.org/stream/SilveiraImplicationsOfNewMissaeAndHereticPopes/Silveira%20Implications%20of%20New%20Missae%20and%20Heretic%20Popes_djvu.txt]

"If Francis is a Heretic, What should Canonically happen to him?": http://www.thecatholicmonitor.com/2020/12/if-francis-is-heretic-what-should.html

- "Could Francis be a Antipope even though the Majority of Cardinals claim he is Pope?": http://www.thecatholicmonitor.com/2019/03/could-francis-be-antipope-even-though.html

 -  LifeSiteNews, "Confusion explodes as Pope Francis throws magisterial weight behind communion for adulterers," December 4, 2017:

The AAS guidelines explicitly allows "sexually active adulterous couples facing 'complex circumstances' to 'access the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist.'"

-  On February 2018, in Rorate Caeli, Catholic theologian Dr. John Lamont:

"The AAS statement... establishes that Pope Francis in Amoris Laetitia has affirmed propositions that are heretical in the strict sense."

- On December 2, 2017, Bishop Rene Gracida:

"Francis' heterodoxy is now official. He has published his letter to the Argentina bishops in Acta Apostlica Series making those letters magisterial documents."

Pray an Our Father now for the restoration of the Church by the bishops by the grace of God.

Election Notes:  

- Intel Cryptanalyst-Mathematician on Biden Steal: "212Million Registered Voters & 66.2% Voting,140.344 M Voted...Trump got 74 M, that leaves only 66.344 M for Biden" [http://catholicmonitor.blogspot.com/2020/12/intel-cryptanalyst-mathematician-on.html?m=1]

- Will US be Venezuela?: Ex-CIA Official told Epoch Times "Chávez started to Focus on [Smartmatic] Voting Machines to Ensure Victory as early as 2003": http://catholicmonitor.blogspot.com/2020/12/will-us-be-venezuela-ex-cia-official.html

- Tucker Carlson's Conservatism Inc. Biden Steal Betrayal is explained by “One of the Greatest Columns ever Written" according to Rush: http://catholicmonitor.blogspot.com/2021/01/tucker-carlsons-conservatism-inc-biden.html?m=1
 
A Hour which will Live in Infamy: 10:01pm November 3, 2020:
http://www.thecatholicmonitor.com/2021/01/a-hour-which-will-live-in-infamy-1001pm.html?m=1
 
What is needed right now to save America from those who would destroy our God given rights is to pray at home or in church and if called to even go to outdoor prayer rallies in every town and city across the United States for God to pour out His grace on our country to save us from those who would use a Reichstag Fire-like incident to destroy our civil liberties. [Is the DC Capitol Incident Comparable to the Nazi Reichstag Fire Incident where the German People Lost their Civil Liberties?http://catholicmonitor.blogspot.com/2021/01/is-dc-capital-incident-comparable-to.html?m=1 and Epoch Times Show Crossroads on Capitol Incident: "Anitfa 'Agent Provocateurs'":
http://catholicmonitor.blogspot.com/2021/01/epoch-times-show-crossroads-on-capital.html?m=1

Pray an Our Father now for the grace to know God's Will and to do it.
 
Pray an Our Father now for America.
 
Pray an Our Father now for the restoration of the Church as well as the Triumph of the Kingdom of the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Comments

Anonymous said…
I have been studying pre-Vatican II theology.

The body of bishops is indefectable because they are in communion with the pope (that is, he is the source of the Church's indefectability). The pope's role is to confirm his brethren in the faith. If he himself has no faith, how can he confirm anyone in the faith? There is much that Bergoglio says and does that contradicts what Jesus Himself taught. Does it look like the body of Bishops is sound? How can any Catholic know this and not wonder if Benedict is the pope?

Popular posts from this blog

Taylor Marshall finally admitted that "Francis teaches HERESY," now, the question is will he do a Skojec & a Schneider Cop Out

    Doctor of the Church St. Francis de Sales totally confirmed beyond any doubt the possibility of a heretical pope and what must be done by the Church in such a situation: "[T]he Pope... WHEN he is EXPLICITLY a heretic , he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church, and the Church MUST either deprive him , or, as some say, declare him deprived, of his Apostolic See." (The Catholic Controversy, by St. Francis de Sales, Pages 305-306) Taylor Marshall finally admitted that "Pope Francis teaches HERESY: Pope Pius XII condemned the heresy of Francis": Pope Francis on Feb 2 2022, taught, "that in Christ no one can ever truly separate us from those we love because the bond is an existential bond, a strong bond that is in our very nature...who have denied the faith, who are apostates." Pope Pius XII taught the exact opposite when he wrote of those: "who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or b

The Nuremberg Trial-like Excuse which Cardinal Burke has so Staggeringly, so Stereotypically Proffered on the Promised “Formal Correction”

Does Cardinal Burke think Francis is an antipope? On at least five occasions, Cardinal Burke has rejected the magisterial nature of official papal teaching (in one case, pre-emptively dismissing a hypothetical official teaching of the Magisterium): Cardinal Burke has rejected the official teaching of Pope Francis in the new Apostolic Constitution Episcopalis Communio concerning the possibility that a pope can raise the final synodal document to the level of ordinary magisterium, if the pope chooses. (We covered the Episcopalis Communio here .) The whole apostolic constitution on the Synod is problematic. … This idea that either the Pope on his own or the Synod together with the Pope can create some new Magisterium [i.e. a new teaching of the ordinary Magisterium], is simply false. The Synod is a consultative body, to help the Pope to see how best to present the Church’s teaching in time. It’s not able to create ordinary Magisterium. As a canon lawyer, Cardinal Burk

"The same Globalists who installed Biden... installed the Zelensky regime... [&] those who did not volunteer for this are Literal Human Shields for the Zelensky/Soros government... [if] Trump had survived the election coup in 2020 we would have no Ukraine war"

Above: Ukrainian President Zelensky (2nd from left) and three other men perform a homoerotic skit on Ukrainian television.    What is the Real Agenda of the corrupt Joe & Hunter Biden's Russiagate backing of the Trudeau-like Obama corrupt Ukraine Operatives in their Warmongering Posturing? "If President Trump had survived the election coup in 2020 we would have no Ukraine war (because he respects Russia’s legitimate security interests and wants to disband NATO)." - Scott Lively Constitutional lawyer Scott Lively thinks that the "same globalists who installed Biden... installed the Zelensky regime in Ukraine... [and] those who did not volunteer for this are literal human shields for the Zelensky/Soros government": The use of human shields in warfare of any kind is a horrifying satanic tactic, and, ironically, it is most effective against people who are truly humane. The tactic uses our humanity against us, because we don’t want the innocent t